Editor’s Note: After devouring Marguerite Manning’s bestseller Cosmic Karma: Understanding Your Contract with the Universe – almost in one sitting – I arranged to talk to her by Skype (February 9th, 2012). She approaches a birth chart with karma in mind. It’s the idea that as soul’s we “reap what we sow.” But she’s clear it’s not about punishment, but a choice we make to repay a debt, to create balance.
Marguerite's forthcoming book is Sign Language, Decoding Your Contract with the Universe, due out on Kindle, March 2012.
Cosmic Karma features the Sun, Neptune and the 12th House, and in our talk, she dove right in to the bigger picture, as she sees it.What’s this thing called life all about?
Margaret Manning: I think it’s about living an honorable human life, and that’s one that the body has worked for, but the soul can be proud of...and I think down here on planet earth that’s a little difference because we’re spiritual beings having a mental experience in a physical world and that’s why we need Mars to push that Sun to stardom and Neptune out there reminding us of the initial game plan. It’s about meeting your past, looking it square in the eye and saying, how do I move beyond this.
Molly Hall: With Neptune in Pisces, there’s potential for understanding the different masks that we’re wearing in this lifetime. For wearing the personae a little more lightly, and how that would show up in culture, film, art, and music.
Marguerite Manning: Absolutely, my formula started with Pisces Neptune in the 12th house, with the 12th house -- the house of ambiance and the surroundings of your last life. Even in Edgar Cayce’s teachings, he was talking about the Eastern horizon being the portal where the soul comes in.
This then makes sense when looking at the 12th House, and its ruler Neptune being the karmic debt, but not necessarily in a punishing way. I look at karma the way the ancients looked at it, working on three levels of energy (mental, spiritual and physical). The concept being when all those energies are divinely balanced, this universe is divine.
So if we come down in one incarnation and we get a little too nasty and start living too aggressively, in our Mars, ‘cause Mars is ‘Who you looking at, get out of my way, do you want a piece of me,’ after all, it’s got to push the Sun to stardom. When we have that powwow with the cosmos, the universe says ‘Where do you believe you took too much on a human level’? -- and that’s Neptune. And the beauty about Neptune, which I don’t think a lot of people understand, is that’s why it can be our guilt.On the Neptune Nudge or Guilt:
If we’re not paying back with that Neptune, the people in our immediate circle make us guilty. They’re the ones that make us want to sacrifice, and we enable them. But really, Neptune is not about paying back, to me, on a personal level, it’s about restoring balance on a universal level, with the people we don’t know, the real victims of the world. The people who really need it, and that Neptune nudge is when we’re not doing it. And the people in our immediate environment, are making us feel guilty, reminding us we have a debt.
That’s what Neptune is about –- where do you have to balance the universe, so it’s divinely available to you again? How many stories have you heard Molly and I’m sure you’ve heard a bunch, where people couldn’t get pregnant? They adopted and then all of a sudden they were able to have a baby. The doctor will say, ‘Oh it’s because you relaxed’’ And many of those people have Neptune in the 5th. So they’ve acknowledged not caring for other people’s creations and not treating them well, so guess what -- they pick up somebody else's baby and start caring for it, and that debt is balanced, and the universe is avail to them again. It’s not a punishment; it’s not a reward. It’s like your electric bill -– if you don’t pay it, the electricity gets turned off.
Wherever Pisces is in the chart, for me, is where your karma is coming back to meet you. When Neptune does its little dance around the chart, it’s always coming in through your Pisces door.
Molly Hall: I’m interested to hear what you think about how the Neptune Pisces will play with the Uranus-Pluto square. This idea of needing to undo much of what we take as solid, and find new momentum from these shocks to our circumstances, like people losing their jobs.
Marguerite Manning: We have no choice now, because Pisces is the house of all our karmic crap. So I’m convinced that every 140 some odd years, Neptune comes back into its own sign, just to say ‘Remember all that stuff that you were going to clear up guys? And you didn’t? Well, guess, what!’ -- and starts throwing it out of the closet. So we don’t have a choice like we did in other lifetimes.
But rather than have Neptune throw it at us where we’re getting blood, sweat and tears…how about stepping up to the plate and saying, ‘Let me find how in a fun way, I can pay this debt to the universe.' And engage the Sun house (Sun’s house position in natal chart) in the process.Serve or Suffer
With Pisces and Virgo, we have the serve or suffer syndrome. With Pisces, it’s an emotional service.
We have a choice. We can do it where we really serve, by being the emotional victim ourselves and that line is so blurry. That’s what happens with Pisces -- you go in wanting to help these people and come out the victim. And that’s where you have to be really careful, if for example, you have rising Pisces. It’s about healing other people psychologically and you can’t do that when you are in pain.
Molly Hall: There’s that catharsis thing that can happen with the Uranus-Pluto square. How do you think that plays into taking the karmic overload that people are living with right now? It’s almost like the tide, what’s going to be washed up, we don’t know. But how can we draw on the tension of the square to work with those Neptunian energies. Do you see something there?Marguerite Manning: I really do if we turn around and empower, instead of waiting until it gets to a friction pt and blows up in our face. If we can embrace the inner freak in ourselves and everybody else -- and that doesn’t mean accept toxic people or do things that go against our belief system, I’m not talking about that.
I really believe this is going to be a period of time when we’re going to be seeing a new way of doing things, a new way of looking at things and doing things. And a lot of people might have a hard time letting go, but it’s the letting go that will make this world a better place.
. And for me it’s not about waiting until we go to war to blow things up over these kinds of issues. It’s about believing that the part of us that’s really, really different deep within us has something to say. And I think a lot of us were programmed to believe that being acceptance by society is so important. And I think that’s why society hasn’t advanced to the point that it should by now. There should be a particular way that we embrace that part that’s different in every body.On Guiding Principles
One of the things I especially hate to hear, is ‘I’m not judging.’ I think that’s horrible. We all should have judgment, discernment, this very Taurean set of guiding principles and values system we live up to. Now we don’t have to condemn other people for not living up to ours, but we should have one that we base our life against, because then how do we evolve, how do we become better?
I think the Uranus is forcing us to say, ‘Ok we’ve got to come up with something new, something new that works.’ With Neptune Pisces, we’re being inundated by the karmic past. And we’re going to have to come up with very different and creative ways of letting go of the past and letting go of tomorrow. And I think the people who have the power within them are going to emerge victorious. I think we have a choice, we can get sucked back into the past or move forward and it’s hard…because we have to do something very Plutonian, which is transform ourselves.
I can remember a very important moment in my life where there was a Pluto square thing going on in a transit, and I sat down on my bed. And I was raising my children and I have Moon in Scorpio, so I had this, how can I say it, an intense mothering….that was almost at times destructive. Anger and things like that. We all go to the moon we were raised with, that’s how we were taught to mother. And I had to make up my mind, do I continue with that, which felt comfortable, or do I change, do I want something different….and I changed it. I have a very intense relationship with all my children. Very moon in Scorpio, but nothing like what I was raised with. But still very intense, very hands-on, and they’re all very aware of the brevity of life.
The neat thing about learned behavior is we can un-learn it. It’s tough, but we’ve got to try. To me, it was a very Uranus-Pluto thing. I had to change the way I was raised and I think that’s what the Uranus-Pluto square is going to do, it’s going to change the way we look at the past. Is it going to control us, or is it going to give us this new Uranian way of going forward.
I think we have an opportunity to transform ourselves from who we were, but we’ve got to want to transform.
Molly Hall: And it’s interesting how we have all these discoveries, and secrets emerging about the ancient past now, coming up for us to re-frame the human past.
Marguerite Manning: I find that fascinating. I am so convinced that the ancients were taught by a higher life form, because I marvel at it all the time. I think the original people understood karmic debt in a different way. I think we do come in with responsibilities, but not as punishment. I think they’re responsibilities we ourselves chose. I can’t complain about the mother I’ve got if this is what I chose and wanted to address. If she’s toxic, which is not the case, I can remove myself from her, I’m old enough, and can transform the story.
I believe that’s why we’re faced with these energies. The cosmos is saying, ‘Here’s the recipe, how would you do it differently?’ And I think, how empowering is that?